April 1996 Eczema Mailing List Archive

Samantha, What makes you assume that we are all non-smokers? I find that very interesting! Actually, myself, I don't smoke. But,except for the harm the smoking might do to you, I'm glad we have at least one smoker in our group because only you can answer a question I've pondered for a long time: IS SMOKING OR SCRATCHING HARDER TO QUIT? I often feel very weak compared to people I know who have quit smoking, because I've tried to quit scratching so many times - never successfully. Nicotine is supposedly the most addictive drug there is. Yet when I watch smokers smoke, they don't appear to be in orgasmic ecstasy like I am when I scratch. So which, for you, is the bigger rush: scratching or smoking?

Yes, scalp eczema is a real problem. I use Temovate scalp application 0.05%. I also want to mention a tip that Ann told me years ago: to use the smallest amount of shampoo possible and make sure that you rinse thoroughly. Since using less shampoo (just a few drops) and rinsing more than I used to, my scalp has improved. The temperature of the water is also important, the colder the better, in my opinion. I also use a series of three shampoos. I find that if I use the same one every day, my scalp reacts. I tried various combinations until I found a group that seems to work in a series of using a different one each day. But periodically I have to change one or all the shampoos. So be prepared to go through the trial and error period over and over again. I seem to be able to live with a group of shampoos for about 6 months before needing to change, but I'm sure everyone has a different reaction time. 

Samantha: I'm so glad you found someone to meet with in person. This online network is great, but talking face to face is even better. I like the combination of daily eczema-mail and periodic face-to-face visits. I urge everyone out there who hasn't met someone else with eczema in person to ask their doctor, and other dermatologists in your area, to give your number to other patients. 

It's amazing when you see with your own eyes someone who looks like you. Or they may not. Out of all the eczema folks I've met in person, only one whose skin had the exact same physical appearance. "So that's what I look like," I thought. The others were all slightly different. But it was close enough to recognize people in our clan. Be aware, though, that you may have expectations about developing a close connection with these people. Just because you have ezcema in common doesn't mean that you'll have everything else in common too. Yes, it's exciting to create a friendship based on the shared struggle with this disease, but be careful of expecting too much. Just because someone else has ezcema doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be your soulmate....

I would definately say that smoking is easier to give up than scratching. The nicotine withdrawal only lasts about 40 hours but the urge to scratch is constant.

Scratching is like a relief and sometimes (as has been discussed on the list) and almost orgasmic feeling. Smoking, on the other hand is simply a topping up of nicotine which your body cries out for when the levels drop too much. Not much of a "rush" at all.

Was what I found great/interesting was looking at Alicia (who is going through a pretty bad bout at the moment) and thinking - hey, it doesn't look so bad.

I have been thinking about this and wondering whether these thoughts were because I am so used to seeing *my own* eczema that someone else's would not seem terrible or whether we feel that our own eczema is so awful to the non-eczema world that we exaggerate our own ugliness?

Did I make any sense there?

I think that I do sometimes exaggerate my skin's ugliness and think that people notice it more that they do. I mean, like I look at myself in the mirror at a distance of about 2 cm seeing every bit of flakey skin, evey tiny eruption and think that this is how the world sees me but no-one out there in the day to day world gets that close to me so they would never see my skin up that close.

By the way - I had a horrid night scratching scratching scratching and tore all my arms and stomach up. I kept waking up and scratching, getting up to pace up and down, calming down, going to sleep, waking up to scratch, getting up to pace...and on and on. What a night.

My shower this morning was very painful with all of the raw skin and I feel a bit yukko.

Samantha, Thank you for explaining the differences between the scratching and smoking habits. I don't feel so morally weak now. I think also that while a motivated-to-quit smoker can distance himself from nicotine ( I.eczema. throw out all smokes; don't hang out where people are smoking), I can't distance myself from my nails or from every single object that would make a good scratcher. I have periodically thrown out all Q-tips (to get control of ear canal scratching) only to find myself pilfering them from other people's bathrooms!

You're lucky to have found a friend with whom you can commiserate. Was there anyone like that in your childhood, or a sympathetic parent or aunt or uncle? 

Ann, From the little I have read thus far in Grossbart's book Skin Deep--truly fantastic stuff--he says there is no such thing as using will power to stem itching. I'm seriously thinking about hypnosis, but he has lots of other methods to help oneself--which I haven't gotten to yet. 

Samantha and Ann: Both of you made good distinctions between trying to quit smoking and scratching, especially the parts about itching being a constant that never wears off and never being able to get away from our implements of destruction. I will remember to bring up those points when people find it hard to understand why scratching is such a problem. 

And Samantha: I know what you mean about seeing another person with eczema and thinking "It doesn't look too bad." I remember that I was afraid to go to my first eczema group meeting because I thought I would be repulsed by everyone's skin and was afraid that I'd feel even more disgusting to identify myself as part of a group of horrible-looking people. But I had the same reaction you did, thinking, gee, they don't look too horrible to be seen with. When I discussed my fear with the group, it turned out that most of them had had the same fear the night before. 

I have been wondering about that. My only facial involvement has been occasionally on my eyelids and a little bit of roughness on cheeks, and even with that it's pretty hard, maybe impossible, to be objective about one's own appearance.

Although there is one way I have found, actually, to do that: videotape. When I see myself entirely "from the outside" on a tape, I get a much clearer idea what I really look like. Enough so that I'm getting used to my appearance, including the shock of being... But I digress.

What I wanted to get at is that I wonder if some of us with facial eczema are feeling worse than we actually look. I do know one man professionally whose face is always red, in varying degrees. I don't know for sure whether this is eczema or something else. But it has no effect on my interaction with him, nor have I ever mentioned it.

I never have been hypnotized. Not sure I want to. Intriguing, but scary.

It's truly comforting to know that a group like this exists on the net and I compliment all those who have helped make this happen.

As I guess is rather typical of most human beings my interest in eczema lies with my own skin problem which may or may not be eczema or a derivative thereof. Basically for about the last year or so, and for the first time in my life (age 43) I have developed very dry patches of skin on my thumb and my ring finger. These dry patches are only on the tips of those fingers. The conditions varies from very dry and (what appears to me to be very thin skin) to better times when the skin is thicker and I might even see some semblance to a finger print. Since I'm mostly "printless" on those fingers perhaps I should enroll in a safe and lock opening course! I'm sure there is work for someone like me!

I've gone to two different dermatologists here and the first said categorically "Dyshidrosis" which according to my books, pretty much describes the problem. No known cure, use creams, cortico-steriods, don't rub the skin dry, relieve stress etc. I guess everyone on this list know that routine pretty well. The other dermatologist said "maybe" dyshidrosis but also possibly a contact allergy problem. I did the allergy patch tests which indicated an allergy to resins which are found in lots of plastics. Now I do hold my computer mouse with the effected hand for hours on end and more or less exactly where the problem lies. So I covered my fingers with a cloth for a month and unfortunately saw no improvement. I removed the cloths a week ago. However just yesterday I got this brilliant insight that although I had use cloths to cover my fingers, I possibly reversed the material during the month meaning that the outside was on the inside and perhaps the resins or chemicals got on the cloths and then did touch my fingers. So I guess there is a bit of hope that my problem is still the mouse. I'm not too convinced though but it does offer a bit of hope for another month. In the meantime I have switched hands for my mouse. No an easy job after so many years using my right for everything however well worth the effort.

Does anyone out there have any experience with anything similar to this problem? I've read a few good things about using Evening Primrose Oil on affected skin which seems to offer great help at least to a few eczema sufferers. I started using it a week ago with no immediate benefit but I understand one does not see results until after a month of use. I guess if Primrose Oil was so fantastic everyone would be using it.

One more thing, I've never lived in a tropical country before and believe me it is often very warm here. If this is eczema that I have, and as it did start shortly after arriving here, might it go away by moving to a colder climate? Or is that just wishful thinking? One does need to be optimistic with these things yet a dose of realism doesn't hurt either.

Well that's my story. Thanks for listening. And naturally any and all suggestions, comments or the like are greatly welcome.

I live in a tropical, monsoonal part of the world. Since I have been living here my eczema has been basically pretty awful. I had infantile eczema as a result - my mother said- of being fed cows milk by nursing staff at the hospital where I was born. That cleared up when I was about 3 - I don't actually remember ever having infantile eczema, I was just told about it, although I've always had asthma - not too bad but enough to be carrying a Ventolin around just in case. 

I've also always had dry flakey skin - especially in winter- and wrinkly palms which I believe is all part of the same syndrome, but it wasn't until I was about 19 that my eczema reoccurred. I was living in an old house probably filled with dustmite, and I was also working my way through Uni by waitressing at night. The eczema reappeared on my hands - which I thought was a result of doing too much washing up. Doctors had prescribed cortisone cream but because I was doing Biochem at Uni, and knew what they were, I tried to aviod using them. By the end of that year though my lower arms were a complete weepy mess and little spots had started coming up on other parts of my body. I then went on a month long summer holiday in the country and moved out of the inner city and all my eczema cleared up for 1 and a half years. I was pretty happy about that.

It came back again on my ankles got pretty bad but went away again when I went on a holiday to Bali. I moved up here 3 years ago and it came back on my lower arms, neck, face, knees. I got skin tested and reacted strongly to dustmite and grasses. I went on a desentisation treatment for dustmite and that nearly gave me a nervous breakdown. I was pretty bad before I went on it, but an absolutely tragic weepy mess coming up to the end of it. All my joints and all my exposed skin was just oozing. I cleared up a lot at the end of the treatment and still have boosters. The eczema however didn't entirely piss off, and I've just got half way through a desensitisation treatment for grasses before I stopped it I was getting the same reaction as I got with the dustmite treatment, and basically didn't want to go through with it again.

I'm leaving this place in a couple of months because eczema is dominating my every waking thought - besides being painful and uncomfortable. Because I've never relied too heavily on cortisones, and because I've cleared up from bad eczema before, I feel pretty confident that I can do it again, although I know it will take time - like a couple of months in the right environment - which isn't here.

I was wondering whether anyone knows of any research involving hormones and the eczema. My skin is a lot better just after a period and my sister's mild eczema cleared up when she was pregnant.

I also was wondering whether the metabolism of cholesterol has anything to do with immune responses. Cholesterol is the precusor to the body's own corticosteriods, sex hormones, and glucosteroids. It is metabolised in the adrenals and ovaries by a phytochrome called P450 which also help detoxify the body. P450 if inactived incorrectly however, can also stimulate a cancer. 

Everyone knows that people with Atopic Disease have too much IgE and that there is an over reaction to stimuli - but I haven't heard much about the "off" switch to the stimuli -ie the utilisation and levels of the bodies own cortisones. There are a lot of people who have allergies - but no extra inflammation or allergenic symptoms so I was just wondering whether there was a problem in people with AD with the metabolism of cholesterol which seems to make sense why allergies, cortisone treatment, diabetes and low hormone (especially female hormone) levels resulting in PMT, post natal depression etc.. can be linked. Lack , varying or low levels of cortisone also results in a thinning of the skin - in the case of a particular adrenal disease which I can't quite remember the name of.... which might account for wrinkly hands and flakey dry skin.

Breastfeeding babies giving them the correct sized fat and cholesterol molecules might develop the correct responses in the adrenals...

Anyway it's just a theory of mine.. Is there any research that anyone knows of in this direction? Anything involving allergies, fat metabolism, hormones, fish oils...... anything???

Ralph, you are certainly a diplomat. I'm having some kind of allergic, bright red blotchy facial problem. For some reason it doesn't feel too badly, but I know it looks like h---. A few people say nothing, but when someone does ask me, which happened just this morning, I say I'm having an allergic reaction to something--I'm a longterm cortisone user because of eczema. Then I get a sympathetic response. A few years ago I would have died a thousand deaths or just stayed home. Now I can at least discuss it like it's not a big deal. I splash alcohol on it to kill slight itchiness, and to keep my hands off it.

Shelley mentioned attending an eczema group, worrying about how awful everybody would look--only no one did. Don't you think that's a huge testament to how exceedingly well we AD people hide or cover up our problem? And then we wonder why there's not much interest in our problem--heck, we appear to be functioning just like everybody else. Why should we require any special dispensations?

Skin Deep is validating thousands of things I've known for years about this disease. It is such a relief to see it in print--no longer do I have to minimize my problem. 

Kris: I tried hypnosis years ago. I didn't feel any affects from it. In fact, the whole time the guy claimed I was hypnotized, I simply felt like I was laying in bed thinking about things with my eyes closed, like I do at night before I drift off to sleep. I think that's called a hypnogogic state, where you're conscious but very relaxed. Anyway, I went for a number of sessions and then stopped because I already knew how to relax. I mean, I had expectations created by the movies. I thought that while hypnotized my subconsciousness would be given some kind of instruction to stop feeling itchy and then I would mysteriously not be itchy or not scratch even if I was itchy. The hypnotist that I saw said that was not how it worked. But you might as well try it if you need to learn techniques for guiding yourself gradually into calmer states of mind when you're agitated. Or perhaps you'd have an entirely different experience. 

Some patients are highly hypnotizable, and from your description you are not. Recently there was a pilot study on patients with psoriasis. There were good responses in those that were highly hypnotizable, whereas the moderate to low hypnotizable individuals did not improve. Interestingly most patients felt overall better, and I assume it is the result of learning relaxation techniques. 

I agree with you that laying there hearing strange suggestions of improvement does not magically result in clearing of skin lesions. Recently there was an article published in the British Journal of Dermatology examining the effect of hypnosis in eczema patients, and they report excellent results. Unfortunately it was not randomized, blinded and controlled, but this is very difficult to do in these kind of studies. Since this disease intermittently gets better and worse, it is also difficult to validate studies. 

I've had about 4 hypnotherapy sessions and I can't say I really got a lot out of them. I've heard the theory that an allergy develops in infant if that child is not attended to and comforted in time, creating a cycle of rage - as in the old 60's style of santisized birth where children were carted off to nurseries straight after birth and given only 4 hourly feeds - usually on bottle not breast milk, instead of the current and more sane trend of demand breast feeding. I certainly know that I was one of those 60's babies, but I personally put my allergy down to the fact that I was a 2 week premature baby who was feed cow's milk - not really the fact that my mind is in a state of anger about being periodically deprived of my mother. Mum always said that I was an "angry" baby but any baby with infantile eczema usually is. Mum also said that she was extremely angry throughout her pregnancy with me (marriage problems..) but I really doubt whether that has much to do with it either as my brother who was born after me, not premature and feed exclusively on breast milk for 6 months at least, would've gone through the same kind of pregnancy and although he has the same kind of skin as me, it's not as dry, doesn't have as wrinkly palms and he has absolutely no allergies.

Call me a reductionist, call me a cynic, but to me hypnotherapy is a good tool to control your stress concerning eczema but the cause of ezcema and allergies is more biochemical and physiological - it's not a state of mind. Reprogramming initial responses to the outside world and your bodies chemical responses to it is a pretty tall order anyway - especially if even the therapist has no idea of the stress triggers. I've also never been able to link my eczema to stress. My ezcema causes stress, but I've been through some pretty stressful times and not broken out in eczema.

The mind is an amazingly powerful thing, but as anyone who's taken a trip will tell you, it's a chemical organ just like the rest of us.

It is interesting to note however that the pituarity which controls cortisone production in the adrenals - sits just below the hypothalamus in the brain. The hypothalamus is the mediator between the emotional and analytical brain. The pituary also controls some sex hormones and it is often said that is why women who are emotionally upset often skip their periods. So you know....maybe for some people hypnotherapy can work... but it didn't seem to be the answer for me.

Justin and Alicia mooted the ideas of climates being better/worse for eczema. I think that of all the places I have lived in tropical places are best but it seems that both Justin and Alicia have had bad experiences with the tropics.

I have lived in almost every climate possible (except extreme desert and arctic conditions) and had severe eczema in all.

I have never found that one place is better than any other in terms of skin - it has been bad everywhere but here I find that I like the wet tropical climate even though I react to moulds quite severely.

In regards to evening primrose oil, it is said that benefits won't be seen until it has been used for three months or so. I have used it for longer periods and haven't noticed any dramatic improvement. The only side effect I noticed is the hole it makes in my pocket - it is sooooo bloody expensive!

Alicia, Welcome to our group. I am going through desensitization treatments (allergy shots) for dustmites, trees, grasses, and weeds. Because I am a "skin reactor" with so many severe allergies, I was started two full dilutions down from what other people start with. It's been almost 2 years and I never missed a week (I started by going twice a week but moved to once a week to reduce the flares). I have just made it to the top level for all but grasses; I hope to get there for grasses late in the summer when pollen level are lowest. 

Most people get to the top in a few months, but my doctor (bless her!) has found that it's best to move very slowly with people like me. Anyhow, my skin is so much better and continues to get better, although I know the shots are probably not going to be a complete cure. I know how bad the flares from shots can be; I remember hearing (or imagining that I heard) my face skin popping (like those plactic packing bubbles) as I gently pressed it to release the ooze! 

Anyhow, after a flare like that, (which always spread to full body in a few hours) we would drop the strength of the shots back and then gradually move back up. The nurses said I'd never make it to red (the strongest stuff) for any of the antigens. I ( and my patient, smart doctor) are proving them wrong (very friendly competition - these nurses are the ones sticking the needles in me!) Anyhow, if you do try the shots again, be sure they start you very low and move very slowly. 

On the hormone issue, when I was pregnant, my skin was not great. I had predisone shots during the pregnancy which made it better. The predisone was (I think) to make the babies lungs develop as I kept going into labor early (I was fLat on my back for the last 3 months); the skin clearing was a side effect. When I was nursing my skin went downhill- arms and legs particularly. My skin is now a lot better than it was 2 to 3 years ago and I'm 49 so I must have less hormones now than I did then. When my face was red all the time they tested my estrogen level to see if it was a hot flash type thing; the test said my estrogen (and other female hormones) were not at all low. ????????????

I just thought of another factor in dealing with scalp eczema. If you can't shave your head (don't laugh, I did it once when my scalp eczema was really bad) you have to be really careful with combs and brushes that you use. If the tips are sharp, they are digging into your head every time you use it. I even realized that I had a problem with a brush I was using, even though it had little balls on the ends of the tips, because the little balls were also irritating my scalp. Now I make sure to only use a brush that has big enough balls (I don't know how else to say that) on the tips so that they don't dig into the soft/raw skin on my head. 

Alicia, Thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas. It is incomprehensible to a lot of people that an infant can develop rage. I would have agreed years ago, except that of four children in my family, only one of us doesn't have an ax to grind--my mother's favorite son. I see the same symptoms of anger in myself and my other two siblings--not a pretty sight. And they know less than I do about the source of their anger.

I was a term baby, born with a "veil" over my face, nursed the old fashioned way in 1941--no new scientific methods there! Rage that originates from the cradle is not easily dissipated, even when one understands why. We three siblings (the rejected ones) have all had eczema tendencies and symptoms--mine being the worst--the "loved" son has never had any.

I have to disagree with you about eczema being a state of mind. I never related body and mind before either, certainly not in my youth--not until I reached middle age and discovered my skin reacting to my emotions. Part of the problem was that I learned so thoroughly to dissociate my feelings from circumstances in my life, I never connected the two. Until I was forced to pay attention to my feelings when I realized a longtime "friend" was treating me like dirt. Thus began my stress-related eczema--after a number of years when I had been entirely free of it. Yes, I agree that eczema itself causes stress and a ton of anxiety and apprehension.

I have no idea what makes somebody a good hypnotic subject. There are textbooks addressing this matter, but I think that it remains unresolved. There is a standrd test that we administer to determine the degree of hypnotizability, but basically it consists of going through the motions of hypnosis itself. The more "liberal" and Ericksonian hypnosis practitioners will strongly disagree with the conclusions of my study, but as I mentioned earlier, only the highly hypnotizable subjects improved, and they represent only about 15-20% of the population. I also can't tell you why it worked. I did not attempt to resolve any past or hidden conflicts. I believe that with the use of hypnosis I am able to deliver a very powerful "placebo" effect. It is also interesting that about 20% of the population responds to placebos. Maybe they are the same people.

I'm cracking up!! No one else has mentioned much about the cost of keeping our disease in the comfort zone. I remember in my 20s skipping the prescription fill because I just couldn't afford it. Then when my doctor asked me if it worked, I was too ashamed to tell him I didn't buy it.

I'm absolutely amazed that shots seem to help you, Ann. I gave myself my own shots when I was in my 20s, but I really don't remember any beneficial effect. And I was told long ago that once past puberty, shots aren't particularly effective. In other words, one's cells are set in stone. I can remember times when I felt like I was in statuary because of taut skin. You must have a wonderful physician--female, no less!! Why do we females feel better with female doctors? They are much better listeners and more empathic, even with a full schedule, generally speaking. Although my first real dermatologist was Jewish, white haired and balding, who told me I could write to him whenever I wanted. He was the first derm dr to connect me up with a psychiatrist, and would write me a letter afterward telling me why I had to see a shrink. He was the exception to the rule! Your doctor sounds like that. In my 30s I lost him to the grim reaper, and that's when my troubles really began. My records were lost to me. What a fool I was not to ask for them.

I admire your audacity, Shelley--shaving your head. I was always too concerned about covering it up, let alone bare it for the world to see.

Shelley, I'm a comb person. I think what hair I have would be gone if I tried to brush it! Anyhow, I find that any new comb is too sharp for my scalp. So I let other family members break in the new ones before I use them. I guess the plastic or rubber wears smooth with use.

Kristen, Yes, my allergist is excellent. But her gender is not the one I would choose if I could (she's the only allergist in town)! I'm probably the only female in the world who prefers male doctors, but I do. I think it's because of the old locker room comparison trauma. I'm extremely thin and women in general are insanely jealous of that (even though I'm obviously not healthy- shows how screwed are society is). Anyhow, undressing in front of any woman (even doctors) always seems to elicit comments about my weight; whereas men dont react on a personal level. About truly cold, uncaring doctors: I'm sure there are some out there, but I think one thing we eczema patients have to realize is that doctors HATE not being able to help a patient. So when someone walks in with global long-term eczema, which is essentially incurable, the doctor is not going to feel real successful or project his best personality. So, as I see it, what we patients perceive as insensitivity is actually a feeling of failure. I guess doctors could learn to be better actors, but I'd rather they spend the time learning other things and I'll get my strokes elsewhere.

Ann, You are certainly not the only woman who prefers male doctors. I've heard of many that do. It does seem that, for ob/gyn exams in particular, many women prefer a woman, but even in that situation many women want a male doctor.

Otherwise I guess most of the male ob/gyns would be out of business, and I don't see that happening.

I find that I am fairly comfortable with a physician of either sex. When my prostate has to be examined (finger in the rectum), I do find it slightly embarrassing to have a woman do it. But in fact I'm not extraordinarly fond of having *anyone* do that particular exam.

One female doctor did cause me to say "ouch" during that procedure with, I think, a fingernail that was too long. And oddly, long fingernails were mentioned by a male doctor whose Compuserve post I once read on the subject of women preferring male ob/gyns. At the time I thought it was a trivial point, but since I got poked, I'm not so sure. I should mention that responsible women practitioners seem to keep their nails very short.

I think it is very poor practice for a doctor of any gender or sexual orientation to make non-medical references to a patient's body appearance. I suspect that most male doctors, these days especially, wouldn't dare say anything like that for fear of being accused of sexual harrassment or something similar.... even if they too felt jealousy or desire upon glancing at a patient's body.

But simple considerations of patient privacy and dignity should rule out such comments from *any* health care professional. After all, you're only undressing because it's necessary for the medical exam, not to show off your bod.

Also, who's to say whether a given female doctor prefers male or female sexual partners? Believe me, any person is capable of sexually harrassing any other person, regardless of gender.

I think it's fair to ask, what is the ethical way for a physician to handle that "feeling of failure"? The patient is always in the rather helpless position of having to ask the doctor for advice and assistance. If the physician is feeling helpless, why not say so, or at least express some kind of (perhaps detached) awareness of the level of suffering?

Unfortunately, I think the problem may be that the physician doesn't want to get into the position of offering comfort, thereby exposing him/herself to more feelings of sadness, and possibly encouraging the patient to return for additional sympathy in the future. Many doctors can't tolerate that.

I came to the conclusion that few people are really cut out for the job. A rare combination of emotional strength, technical ability, and compassion make for a truly excellent doctor. There are probably a few in each medical school class.

Diane, Why jacuzzi? If it's causing you such problems why don't you avoid it, at least until your skin clears up. You can also change the chlorination system to be a salt one. Salt water, I've heard is very good for some people's ezcema.

It's sounds like your skin problem is a specific contact one. About the only thing you can do about it is avoid the allergen - chlorine. Where I live they put bucket loads of chlorine in the drinking water. You can sometimes smell it as you turn on the tap. A lot of asthmatics claim that it causes their asthma and thus get their own rainwater tanks for drinking water. Anyway I hope it clears up for you.

Did the psychiatrist help? I wasn't rejected by my mother in any way. I asked last Christmas whether or not she was ashamed of me as a baby because I'd broken out in ezcema and she says that she was desperately concerned for me but never ashamed. I proposed to her that she was disappointed in having another girl (I was the third girl and she was hoping to have a boy) and she said that she would've always loved any baby of hers and Dad's regardless of sex, and although she (not Dad) was hoping for a boy, she was happy when I was born -until I broke out in eczema at 4 months -and then it was a bit of a nightmare - having 2 other little kids - and a screaming baby who wouldn't be put down in the cot.

I think that I developed a mentality that was intense and competitive and sometime very angry, but that was a result of, not the cause of my ezcema. Apparently I was a sweet little much loved thing before the onset of infantile eczema.

That's very encouraging. How much better are you off now? eg Where did you have eczema before you started on the programme?, where you do have eczema now? I've gotten through a treatment for dustmite although I don't know whether I am really desensitised at a skin level or not. I can take a 5000 concentration dose - they started my on 20 - and not get a flare up reaction, but I still seem to get itchy when I'm sleeping in a place where I know there are lots of dustmite.

I'm still having the dustmite boosters, but I'm still getting over the last flare up for the grasses injection (that was 3 weeks ago!) I might try it again only this time a lot more slowly. Thanks for the encouragement.

The hormone issue is interesting. How does predisone make babies lungs develop? The doctor I went to last time said that pregnancy will either make eczema better or worse - it just depends on which type you are - which seemed very strange to me. I've never heard of cortisone being used to aid development though. Do you know any more about this? Maybe it's a link to asthma.

Right. When you are nursing your oestrogens and progesterones are meant to drop right off (causing post-natal depression among other things) but there doesn't seem to be any link between your hormone levels and your state of skin does there? So who knows hey? It's just that it can be quite a definte thing with me that just after my period, my skin is definitely a lot better. I thought that maybe it was just that I was coping with it better, but no it is better.

I know a number of people with bad allergies - mostly hayfever - who have virtually been cured by desensitisation treatments. They were well out of puberty. The doctors that I went to to get the densens' treatments also claimed to have fixed up a few people with bad eczema due to dustmite. I will ask my doctor next time whether he can ask these people to get in contact with me so that I can see for myself how well the treatment worked. My problem was that the dustmite wasn't my only allergen. My doctor was quite surprised that it took so long for me to clear up, because he'd had a few success stories before me.

Alicia, When I started the shots, I was covered with eczema (except for most of my feet); I guess it was mostly moderate. I am still covered but it is much better - lots of mild areas. I think I'm using less steroids and I know that the facial flares are not as wild looking. (At my worst, I often had dark red cheeks and a yellow nose.) I had to wear wet clothing to sleep and now I only sometimes wet wrap the face,neck and scalp. I am allergic to most foods, molds ,animals etc., so I know the shots won't cure me completely. But I was almost suicidal when I started the shots (mainly because so many hours of my day and night were comsumed with eczema I didn't see the point in continuing). Now, I am enough better that I can cope with it. I still do flare almost every night (except when loaded with steroids) but it's much less of an event. Also, my respiratory ailments are better. I can't remember exactly why they gave me the prednisone during the pregnancy, but it was a nightmare 9 months: many drugs etc..

Am catching up on your messages after a wonderful relaxing week. Samantha - my scratching is worse at night too. I rotate between Tylenol, Advil, and hydoxine HCl (I can't remember the common name for this) to calm the itching. It does help me sleep and not itch.

Kristen, I tried hypnosis last year, but it didn't work for me. I don't know if I'm just not that suggestable or if the excema itch symptom overpowers my mental strength. Or perhaps my hypnotist wasn't so great. It really doesn't matter, it didn't work for me.

But I encourage you to try it, because I firmly believe that we have to find what works for each one of us, and our cures will be different according to body chemistry and emotional chemistry.

Justin, Give EPO (evening primrose oil) and many other "natural" therapies AT LEAST 6 weeks or longer to evaluate. They really have to have time to change your body chemistry, which in turn may help your eczema.

Hi, everybody. Well I fasted for 7 days and have eaten very little since as I come back to eating normal foods. Last 3 days was cooked veggies. Tomorrow I start on raw veggies and fruit. My skin got worse as the fast progressed. I think I would have had to fast for another week to get to the bottom of it. Once I started eating, my skin got better. The problem with AD is the prescription stew we all ingest to keep going. I've gone 1 1/2 weeks without any medication (except topical steroids). That in itself is a blessing.

My skin does much better when my diet is extremely limited to veggies (green). If I can maintain it, it is the way to go.

Re: Cortizone: Samantha, I was on prednisone for years. As soon as I started to flare, I would just take more. Though I felt good (except for the mood swings), I was moon-faced, bloated and developed cataracts at age 45. The minuses definitely outweighed the plusses.

Richard--Fascinating report on fasting and cortisone. Appreciated hearing about your firsthand experiences, esp. eating veggies, smoking, and effects of cortisone. I think I been on the moon(face) planet on and off. Wonder if you had some kind of withdrawal reaction while fasting. Never interested in smoking--the thought of smoke in my nostrils was a turnoff long ago.

Do you have any sense of whether milk products help or hinder your skin? Reading your report makes me think we are all destined to go to hell in a handbasket! haha Even the simple pleasures are denied to AD persons. How does chocolate affect your skin? 

Thanks for the encouragement, Wren. It is interesting that no one on the List has had any particularly positive results. I don't expect it to do anything for itching--believe it or not, itching is not a huge problem for me anymore. I want to try hyposis more for head work and integration of feelings/thoughts. Provided I can find someone who is worth the trouble. Not sure how to go about it yet. Emotional chemistry is a big factor even in working with a shrink, or any other doctor. It's all trial and error--just like AD. We've all probably been spinning our wheels over the same simple problems because we had no rudder for our quest. 

Kristen, When I said I hated to undress in front of a doctor, I didn't mean I did a striptease act! They comment on the thin thing even through the paper frock. Maybe they are just concerned that I have anorexia ( I'm not THAT thin) and want to rule that out as a factor in my health problems? There I go being charitable to doctors again! Anyhow, I've always wished for a derm dr. with skin problems; You are lucky to have one.

Richard, since you got worse while on the fast and only better later, it may be that both the getting worse and better were totally or paritally unrelated to the fast. What do you think? I find that what works at one time doesn't at another and visa versa. Also, contributing factors (stress, food, etc.) which impact me at one time don't at others.

Kris -- I dont do dairy (except for the occasional pizza). I dont have 1st hand experience with it causing skin flares. However, since I have respiratory stuff from time to time, I breathe better without it. Chocolate is no good for me. It makes me itch within 10 mins of digesting.

I have started eating raw veggies and fruit as well as cooked veggies (no grains or what's called nightshades). I've got to say that my skin stopped flaring and except for itching on my wrists and elbow crooks, I feel pretty darn good. I also added epsom salts to my aveeno baths at night. Seems to help. This is a minimalist diet but the effect is to reduce itching. Foods will start be added one at a time to see the reaction. More to come.... 

I'm amazed at the instant reaction you get to foods. Nothing like that happens to me with any particular food. I get more rapid responses being around cats, dogs, outdoor winds with pollens, etc. I don't envy you the limited diet--it bored me stiff when I was on a no milk-no wheat,grain,bran,gluten diet. I was also irritated as all get-out because pastas, pizza, all "real" breads, and just about everything else is made with those ingredients. I finally just scrapped it--when I returned to milk after a year, I found out I had become lactose intolerant. So breakfast became a forgotten entity. I like fruits and vegetables--but not a straight diet of nothing else but. How do you stand it? 

Richard, I was surprised and interested in the fact that your itching got worse as the fast progressed. Any ideas why? Do you think that your body was releasing toxins that caused you to itch?

Hi, everyone. I was doing really well until right before bedtime last night when I let myself scratch myself deeply in my elbow joints. I'm always so pissed and upset afterward, not to mention in pain. My skin is really dry and flaky so anywhere I scratch even lightly feels good. Anyway, I think it may be the popcorn that I ate that day. Today is raw veggies only. We'll see how that goes. 

Kris--I've been a vegan for almost 2 years so it's not tooooo bad. I miss deep fried foods. But, I wouldn't go back. 

Wren & Robert--I think the fast caused the toxins to release though you never know for sure. I wish I would have had 2 to 3 weeks to fast and see what happened. So far the best thing for my rash is taking 3 baths a day and not working. 

Richard, I just started drinking a Chinese herb tea made by an experience Chinese Derm MD. The results have been phenomenal. My sloughing has stopped. Itching has lessened, the skin all over my body has improved. It's smooth everywhere except my hands, feet, and elbow and knee outsides. I still itch and have some sores, but the improvement has been practically miraculous. The MD is sure that I'll get much better yet.

Diane, I too would beg you to find another way to exercise. Repeated exposure to the chlorine will only worsen your condition. With time it can keep you in constant pain with sores. Your body is giving you a strong message: it doesn't like chlorine. Stop now while you can control it. Also, you may want to install a chlorine filtering showerhead if you shower.

Concerning the query about chocolate that Kristin posted - well with Easter just passed and the tons of chocolate bunnies, bilbies* and eggs consumed - I am certainly feeling it but *any* very concentrated food aggravates my skin.

Diane, I agree with Wren. You have a strong suspicion as to what's causing your rash; so get away from the irritant. Most of us have been itching and scratching for so long because of so many irritants that it's an impossibly complex puzzle with no workable solution. When eczema first appears may be the last chance to get it under control! You mentioned a jacuzzi. Could it simply be the hot water in the jacuzzi? It might make sense to try the pool without the jacuzzi and see if you clear up. (Also it seems to me that jacuzzis have more chlorine in them than regular pools.) I know that when my skin was relatively good, I could swim in pools, but never could I stand the heat (or extra chemicals?) of the jacuzzi.

Everyone, You've probably all figured this out already, but a way to minimize scratching damage is to repeatedly dig your nails in but don't actually scratch. It's not the greatest thing for the skin, but the damage is less than full scratching. I use it mainly on my back.

Also, having a thick coat of nail polish (on short nails of course) on and under the nail tips cuts down on scratch damage. Don't try this if you are allergic to the chemicals in nail polish! If you don't want to look polished ( still listening, guys?), use clear polish and smudge it with kleenex when it's almost dry.

I agree strongly about the advise concerning chlorine. What happens with my eczema, once it is set off and "settled", the causes multiply and the body gets out of balance. Therefore, I would strongly advise that you avoid the chlorine, spa (go to a different one or find a substitute that doesn't involve chlorine, install a jaccuzzi in your house which in the long run would be cheaper, etc.)

I agree with Alicia that my rage is a result of the eczema, not the cause of it. I believe that it's impossible to blame any one factor for this condition, it's clearly multifactorial. Part of my problem is perhaps in the brain's connection to my nervous system. I seem to have a need for stronger and more frequent tactile sensory input than do "normal" people. I mean, I need to constantly give my brain tactile feedback. When I've gone a long time without being able to touch my skin, (for instance when I'm dressed up all day), I get itchy. That of course triggers a scratching frenzy and causes the damage of scratching and subsequent skin reactions. But if I can take my clothes off, and use a washcloth to moisten my skin, or just squeeze my skin all over, that seems to give my nervous system the stimulation that it wants. It's as if the brain creates the itch to get the scratching to get tactile stimulation. And many other factors seem to be related to my hypersensitive nervous system. For instance, I'm very sensitive to heat and can get itchy just from sitting in a chair close to the window where the sun is shining in. My body reacts to very subtle changes in the environment, changes that I may not even be consciously aware of until I've gone into a scratching frenzy and later wonder what happened. I don't discount entirely the theory of infantile rage but for me, at least, it could only be a contributing factor among many. Perhaps the rage is created by the nervous system to get stimulation. You could select any theory as a center and shape the factors around it. 

Wayne for Trish---I've seen catalogs for completely cotton clothing--actually quite expensive--but I know there's a manufacturer of all cotton stuff out there. I wonder if there isn't something on the Net. Or even talking to a buyer for women's clothing who would probably know where to direct her search. I can't stand rubberized stuff next to my skin either, so I no longer wear any garments like that unless the rubber is encased in the fabric. 

Interesting, but I also happen to believe that there is something wrong with our SKIN. I certainly don't subscribe to the theory that this is "all in our minds." I haven't made my way through the entire "Skin Deep" book, but I get the impression that the authors believe that it's mostly mental? I just can't buy that.

My son had eczema starting from the time he was about three months old. Was he remembering some infantile trauma? Nah, the eczema WAS the trauma.

In other words, I agree with you, Shelley. Our skin isn't supposed to be this "sensitive" or itchy. Something ain't right.

I have found elastic-free cotton socks which stay up without making red marks on my legs. This is particularly important to me because the worst area of eczema I have is on my lower leg.

They (the socks that is, not my legs) are manufactured in the UK.

Ralph, The way I look at it, I basically have normal skin. BUT my immune system is out of whack; I am allergic to many, many things. My skin happens to be my primary "target organ"; most of my allergic reactions occur in the skin (via the bloodstream - I don't seem to have many contact allergies). The resulting rashes and the endless scratching have altered, and maybe even re-wired, the nerves in the skin. I believe that if my immune system could be completely fixed, my skin would be normal except maybe for the hypersensitive nerves which might have been permanently altered. My allergist agrees with me on this. My derm dr., however, believes that my skin is just plain devoid of oil, and therefore is very susceptable to irritation. He thinks that even without any allergies, I would still have friable skin. None of us seems to think that the nervous system plays much of a role in CAUSING the eczema. 

Thanks for explaining your point of view. I see what you mean about our possibly having normal skin. I have had allergies all my life, too, and yes, the problem seems to me to be coming from "inside" the body somehow. So maybe you're right about ths skin being normal. I must admit I had never thought of it in quite that way.

The only really satisfactory treatment I've had was from a Chinese herbalist. You are given something which looks much like dried compost, boil it for about an hour and drink the results. The taste is quite appalling. I actually saw this treatment reported on in an English documentary. A dermatologist at one of the major London teaching hospitals was liaising with a Chinese herbalist in attempt to find a treatment which would be effective for all eczema sufferers (when you consult the herbalist he/she prescribes for you specifically). His colleagues were sceptical, but the results were impressive.

If I'm desperate, I go back to the herbalist (yes, the problem does recur, but only after a long interval), but there have been some negative reports about this treatment concerning liver damage and lack of controls over preparation which would apply to Western medicine.

Personally, the results I had were worth the risk, but I must admit that now my eczema is more minor, I'm looking for other alternatives.

I don't think Grossbart is denigrating or reducing eczema to a mere "all in your mind" theory. I do believe that the emotional component of the skin ailment is related much more heavily to our psychic status than meets the eye. I went thru this same thing: When I wanted concrete help for a derm problem, and got sent to a shrink, I was furious. I didn't recognize until much later that my deep-seated anger did have a detrimental effect.

But, itching and scratching my way from birth to adolescence to adulthood myself obviously points to more than just mental status. We have all inherited our condition or tendency to eczema from our parents or their parents genetically. The particular problems we may have in our personal lives puts more stress on our skin's fragile balance. Discounting the emotional component and reducing eczema to a total physical base is selling the disease short of all its implications. But each to his own--hindsight is definitely a plus in evaluating the overall picture!

Hi Ann, I like your description, which I can relate to 100 percent. I don't think emotions CAUSE eczema either, but I do believe, at age 54, that my mental state has exacerbated the skin problem, depending on the stresses at different times in my life. I do remember feeling like I was being driven to self-destruct by certain people in my life when I was still at home. I know I don't imagine that, especially in retrospect, since living alone removed those kinds of stresses from my life.

Kristen, as I mentioned before, the ingredients change according to the patient. This doesn't seem to be a do-it-yourself type of treatment. My herbalist brings the "herbs" in from China and they seem to comprise a lot more than what we understand as herbs. In my treatment I get a mixture of powders, pieces of what appears to be wood, leaves, seeds. etc.etc. The mixture is not always the same every time. We are fortunate in Auckland and have a large Chinese community who bring their doctors with them, but I imagine they would be found in most areas. I can only recommend you seek one out - when I first went I had eczema over large areas of my body. I now only have a little on my hands.

An interesting sideline - my herbalist questions me about how hot I am. I so happens that I didn't even get eczema until the onset of the menopause, when I was plagued by hot flushes, and I still feel that my thermostat is somewhat out of control. Perhaps there's some sort of clue here. To scratchless days! 

Brenda, You're probably pretty right. There's been a lot of talk about how doona's as opposed to sheets and blankets are making people too hot at night and causing eczema and skin problems. I know I feel cold easily at night and try and cover up (understanding of course that I already live in the tropics) and a few people who have shared a bed with me have commented about how I feel like a hot thermos... and they weren't just talking about my amazing noctural performances.

I'm glad you've had good results. It's encouraging to hear stories like yours.

For a new subscriber to the list and a newbie to boot, I may be being a bit vocal but there is one other small thing which I have found very helpful. As recommended by my doctor, at the end of a shower I rub the very basic stuff *emulsifying ointment* (is this the right thing to use for quotation marks?) on to my skin (in fact when my eczema was very bad I actually used to wash with it). This keeps your skin moist and less prone to the dryness which seems to start the eczema off. Even now I'm so much better, I never use soap but some kind of non-soap or synthetic soap alternative. I know this sort of stuff is getting at the effects and not the causes, and brings up the question yet again of whether the whole thing has a psychological base, but my experience is that if you feel you've got the thing under control the problems are considerably lessened. 

In this same vein, I've found organic cotton underwear at natural clothing and living, if you will, stores.

My theory is that the eczema is caused by a systemic imbalance of some sort that is expressed through the itching and sensitivity of the skin nerves, among other factors.

I'm having great success by drinking the Chinese Tea that my MD is making for me. However, I don't think the recipe is generally available. And I don't think it should be either. Each of us has different symptoms, bodies, and needs. The doctor evaluates all of these, then makes up a the batch of roots, seeds, and other ingredients according to one's health on that day.

As I improve my doctor has been changing my recipe.

Herbology is a science as well as an art; my doctor has a degree in it. The ingredients are clearly powerful chemicals that need to be handled as carefully as other medicines. I recommend that you find an EXPERIENCED acupuncturist/herbologist, or if you are lucky, an acupuncturist herbologist who specializes in skin disorders.

Brenda, I agree with you about the thermostat being a little out of wack. I was cold constantly for months. Now that I'm feeling better I'm feeling normal - not warm and not cold - most of the time.

I went to see my dermatologist this afternoon. My hands have been getting worse and it's time for another antibiotic treatment -- it's been about six months since my last one. He prescribed his current set of coordinated remedies:

* Diprolene ointment used with occlusion 

* Soaks with Zetar solution (tar dissolved in "polysorbates") in warm water 

* Biaxin (antibiotic) 500 mg twice a day for 10 days 

* Nizoral (anti-fungal) 200 mg once a day for 10 days

>>What is emulsifying ointment?<<

It appears to be a base normally used for prescription ointments. It contains emulsifying wax 30%. white soft paraffin 30%. liquid paraffin 40%. Presumably most drug companies would make it. I just get it from the local chemist in 500g. pots.

Okay, now I understand. Shelley has recommended a product called Aquaphor Ointment, which is also used by pharmacists. I have tried it and found it to be very soothing; much better than plain petroleum jelly.

Brenda, My experience with menopause began as long-term migraines and the ultimate hot flashes--the bane on my already present curse of eczema. It was another wrack on the wretched ladder of "maturity." I had to choice but to go with estrogen and progesterone. Can't say it did much for the eczema tho--just added itself to the misery.

>>My homeopathic allergist has me on a no gluten diet too, though I must say it didn't appear to lessen my itching. Evidently one symptom of a gluten allergy is itching. <<

Can't say I'm very surprised. I was told the same baloney and did the no gluten thing in my early 30s. I did not enjoy giving up bread, one of the few enjoyments left to an AD person when nearly everything else is off limits. It really made no difference in my skin condition. Unless a person is truly gluten-sensitive which is a colon problem of digestion, not eczema. Food allergies and food sensitivites, not to be minimized, are not the same thing at all. But I suppose it is hard to tell the difference unless one spends most of one's life in the diagnostic laboratory under a doctor's microscope. Guess I'd rather be like Ingrid Bergman--keep smoking to the end and lung cancer be damned! 

Hi Pat, Welcome to the Itch List. You probably already know eczema is one accommodating disease. It will burrow its way into your life one way or another, and none of us seem to have a lot in common except that we all have the itch/scratch/go nuts syndrome. I pursue comfort to all other exclusions, whatever that takes. I'm 54 and have never documented any relationship between eczema and hormonal levels. In fact, I rarely have any itching, nothing morbid at least, that causes me to dig myself up. But the 'Pause could go away.

Aside from that, because I'm a longterm, regular user of cortisone facially--and getting off it-- my face is now so acutely sensitized to absolutely everything, I have inadvertently given myself acute facial edema and intense heat from lotions I had used before that were never a problem. Now I'm trying to find a simple, low viscoid oil for lubricating the skin of my face. A pharmacy here suggests grapeseed oil because it's very thin. Any commercially prepared lotions have so many chemicals in them, they are all hopeless. Vitamin E oil seems okay as well as vaseline, but it's so heavy for the summer and so sticky, I can't stand it.

When itching used to keep me away at night, I would take anything I could to knock me out, even if it was just aspirin. But tranquilizers are the best. I use Doxepin with good results, from 10 mg for daytime to 50 mg for bedtime, but Shelley has had negative results with Doxepin.

Yup, I had the same experience. No difference at all when I was on a highly restrictive diet. In fact, my skin seemed to be slightly worse.

Um, bread vs. cigarettes, hmmm. I'll take gluten over nicotine any day.

Ralph, Your mention of superantigens and staphalococus bacterium was interesting to me because I know I had a staph infection after an operation when I was about 9 years old. Do the doctors think that staph bacteria somehow help create this superantigen? I don't quite understand the connection. My eczema was no worse after the staph infection, but no better either. Before you mentioned it, I assumed it had no effect at all on my eczema. Could the staph infection have created a superantigen that set me up for a lifelong chronic condition instead of a condition that disappeared at puberty (as some eczema conditions do)? 

My experience is that the intensity of the itching reduces with the more retrictive my diet. The problem with wheat is that it's in everything and who knows what the threshold level is. I think it's very important what goes in one's mouth as it gets pushed out to the skin. The question is, in the scheme of things, is this more important than smog, pollens, dyes in detergent or dirt? I don't think so, but in my way of thinking that doesn't mean I shouldn't try everything possible.

When I realized *they* were never going to make it better, I got stronger and took control of my life. I still wince when I feel like a *case* instead of a person. But, I think docs do care if only for 15 minutes.

I'm starting 3 weeks after the fast, still on a highly restricted diet of cooked veggies, raw veggies and fruit. My skin, though not flaring goes through cycles of better 1 day, worse the next. If I could only get it through my thick skull that it always feels worse after scratching than before when I am about to go for it....

I asked my homeopathic allergist if I could start eating wheat again after my great progress using the Chinese herbs. She replied emphatically, "No." I have no idea if not eating wheat and other glutinous carbs, fruit, dairy, sugar, and fermented foods has made any difference or not. But I sure miss sourdough bread slathered with butter. I may just start eating wheat and see what happens. This MD also thinks I have a yeast and dairy allergy, but who knows.

After a year of no milk products, when I decided it was a useless quest, I discovered much to my chagrin I was lactose intolerant. You might want to think seriously about whether you are willing to give up some foods for a trial period, because you might end up giving them up permanently, whether you like it or not. I used to take the allergen drops under the tongue for supposed food allergies--another big waste of time and money. Some people don't consider giving up certain foods as living a deprived life, but I do. I would be bored beyond tears with Richard's veggie-veggie-and-more veggie regimen. I would go stark raving mad if that's all I could exist on. I admire his perseverance. There may be some saving grace in attaining middle age, because I rarely have the horrific itching-scratching binges anymore--I attribute it to reducing the underlying tension in my life to almost nil. My only real skin problem now is the result of cortisone overuse and finding a substitute lubricant.

I've been told that restricting you diet too much can actually cause sensitisations. A nurse I know warned me not to stay of wheat for too long because people who have avoided wheat for 4 weeks or more have developed a gluten sensitivity or become ceoliacs (or however it's spelt). Wheat allergies are common apparently as genetic engineering to overcome moulds and insect suspectibility in wheat has resulted in the development of new wheat proteins that the human body doesn't recognise and regards as foreign.

To me though, if you have a known sensitivity - avoid it - but it is dangerous to start playing around and restricting your diet - increasing the liklihood of deficiencies and perhaps lowering your body's tolerances to certain foods. If you really want to avoid food intolerances then start eating seasonally and macrobiotically. The development of technologies to preserve food, canned, frozen, sulphur dried etc... really hasn't been such an amazing thing. It has just meant that we can eat whatever we want when - overdosing and underdosing on everything. Often a complete change in my diet -that I get from going overseas - holidaying in Asia for instance - clears my skin up and it stays good for a long time after I get back.

The sad thing about our condition I think is that it highlights the fact that humans are changing our environment faster that we can evolve to fit it. But that's another 80 page essay....

It is common practice among good allergists, in my understanding, to "rechallenge" with a substance that's been withdrawn to see if it really is playing a role in the problem situation. If I were in your (gluten-free) shoes, I would certainly try it.

>>Allergists, in my always-humble opinion, will tend to let on that they know what is happening with the immune system, but I think the truth is that they haven't a clue. Or rather, they do know, but the stuff they know is wrong. And you can't really hold that against them. The poor dears are trying, really they are (sob).<<

Yes, they are very trying. There's something seriously wrong with the investigation of allergies. I don't really think that it is a big global conspiracy to sell more drugs but it think there is far too much concentration on the symptoms of allergies rather than the sensitisation process. For instance it is a pretty widely accepted truth that breast fed babies are less likely to develop eczema than bottle fed ones. Why? Babies put on goats milk ( like I was) clear up a lot. Why? Size of fat molecules, sugars, cholesterol breakdown, mother's antibodies to infection..???. A lot of people grow out of their allergies at a certain age. Why? Pregnancy seems to affect allergies Why? Exposure to certain materials - like formaldehyde - can cause sensitisation. Why? You'd think with all the evidence researchers have got to go on there would've been a bit more progress by now. I mean this sort of stuff is 20 years old. Everyone knows that allergenic people have higher levels of IgE. Big whoop. That's symptomatic. What generates the high levels of IgE? I think you're right Ralph, for all their research grants, for all their time and efforts, they are still stumbling around in the dark. Poor dears.

So far middle age has had its problems as well. I agree that the intensity seems to be waining (I.eczema., I don't think I'm in "stop my life for 2 weeks while I recover" anymore. However, when I was younger and more carefree, I pumped myself with so much prednisone, who knows what would of happened without it.

Alicia, You mentioned that when you go to Asia you clear up completely because of the diet change. Could it also be the change in flora (I.eczema. pollen) and fauna (I.eczema. dust mites)? If food is the factor, have you tried eating an Asian diet all the time? That's easy for me to suggest because I'm not a food person. I think the itch - scratch sensation is so intense that hunger-taste just doesn't register in me.

Everyone, I just realized some irony. Back when all I had were some small areas of eczema, my derm dr. prescribed more than adequate quantities of steroid ointment. I can remember having 30 or 45 gram tubes and sometimes throwing out expired stuff. Now that I'm covered with eczema, he is very stingy with how much I get. I understand that it is because you absorb more of a steroid if it is spread over a larger area. But it just seems funny that I now am "entitled" to so much less when I need it more! I am always cutting open the empty tubes and rubbing the insides on my skin to get the last little bit. This is why I would like to see a stick form of Elocon; I think I could stretch my ration further.

Ann, I'm a saver type, so rarely throw out expensive tubes of anything, regardless of expiration date. I don't think it is all that unsafe to use a few months past an expiration date. Esp. if budget figures into the equation. But my HMO has been more generous with my scripts since I complained about their being chintzy.

Does anyone know if Aquaphor has a base of wool alcohol? 

Kristen, I always thought it was fine to use drugs well past the expiration date, thinking the manufacturers built in an extra cushion of time. Now that I work for a manufacturer, I can tell you that testing is done and products potent, if you will, within the date marked on the container. After that time, the company may not have data or results that showing potency or antimicrobial properties in the drugs. The dates are for real!

I'm very interested in your comments about hunger and taste, Ann. When my son Saul was about a year old, he had fairly severe eczema over most of his body. He also was not eating well at all. The dermatologist, Dr. Koblenzer, told us that the itching could be so severe that it interfered with sensations of hunger! At the time, I could hardly believe him. Not that I disbelieved him, if you know what I mean, but the idea seemed so outlandish that my mind couldn't quite accept it.

Now that you, as an adult, are reporting the same phenomenon, I feel that my Dr. knew whereof he spoke.

Is this still the case (as you seem to imply)? Is it related to current itching, or is it just a habit of perception, so to speak, that persists even when you are not very itchy?

Finally, has anyone else on the list had this experience?

Ralph, I can't correlate low appetite times with high itch times. I just know that I have always had a pretty weak appetite. Part of it is probably a survival mechanism; I have lots of food allergies, some anaphalaxtic. So many times for me, not eating at all has been the healthiest thing to do! 

Could be flora and dust mites. But I don't know why there should be dustmite here, but not in Timor (Indonesian Island 300km north). Flora is a big one though. I think I'm definitely allergic to something that grows here. Unfortunately there are no region specific skin tests (something for someone to make a lot of money on..) so the grasses etc.. that I got tested for on the skin test probably don't even grow here.

The other thing is all the pesticides, termite poisons, electromagnetic pollution, man-mede crap that we toxify our industrialised world with, may not be in use in some of the primitive places that I was staying in in Timor/Bali. There are so many environmental things. I just know that I come back from Indonesia eczema free and a vision of health. If I go back to S the eczema comes back 4 months to a year later, when I flew back to D it started to come back with 2 weeks.

Did try for a while to stay on an Asian diet. Which excluded bread and a lot of diary products - used fresh unrefridgerated veges, rice, and has tropical fruits - paw-paw, mangos, pineapple and heaps of bananas but it's very hard to stay on this lovely diet when you are living a modern lifestyle, and don't have a lot of time to prepare you're own Asian dishes. I always seem to get back to work and snack on chips etc.., eat breads and drink coffees. I have been on gluten, lacto free diets before, and it didn't really seem to clear it up like a trip to Asia did. Ohh... it's such a lovely place.. I recommend it.

It's the same for me Ann. I just have a low appetite constantly but this is a new thing for me. I got up here and just thought that the effect of the heat meant that my body didn't have to warm it's self quite so much therefore I didn't have an appetite to eat so much. But it was the same time my eczema got a lot worse as well. I miss liking food as much as I used to. Apparently a low appetite is a result of your liver not working as well as it should - not producing enough bile salts... which goes back to my cholesterol thoery... but others who I have talked to say their eczema doesn't affect their appetite at all. So I don't know...

I just wonder if hunger isn't a luxury you enjoy when nothing else is occupying your mind. Who hasn't spent hours on an absorbing task and just forgotten to eat? Maybe when the state of your skin takes priority over everything else, the appetite just disappears. I've got to admit my meals have become pretty scrappy since I bought my new computer! 

Does anyone have a suggestion as to what you can do to cope with eczema on the eyelids? Obviously you don"t dare use the type of treatment you use elsewhere, but simple emollients aren't enough.

I had eyelid problems for years, although they've largely gone away now (the problems, that is; my eyelids are still there). I would use opthalmic steroid ointment, which is very mild and formulated for the eyes. Of course that would have to be prescribed by your doctor. I wash my hands first, since the eyelids are very susceptible to irritation, then apply just a tiny bit of ointment before going to bed.

Sometimes when my eyelids were hurting, I would just hold a damp washcloth over my eyes; that was soothing.

I never found any emollient that didn't irritate my eyelids. They are so sensitive, it's enough to drive a person crazy.

I've had just the opposite experience. I was ravenous for months, and my appetite is just now waning a bit. I attributed the increased hunger to

1) being awake and scratching for hours at night, so that I didn't rest. So maybe I needed more energy, and thus, food. 

2) I'm on a no wheat, no gluten, no sugar, no fruit, no dairy, no caffeine, no fermented foods diet, so maybe my metabolism changed. My weight did drop (I feel as if I'm gaining some back now, although my diet is the same), and I felt hungry all the time. So I ate portions that were, gosh, double, what I'd previously eaten. Whether it had to do with the systemic properties I attribute to the eczema too, I don't know.

Hi all. Yep, I'm a real advocate for the Chinese herbal tea. I just started seeing a Chinese dermatologist with 30 years of experience. She checked me out, said, "You'll be fine", dispensed the self-prepared herbs and ointments, and true to her word, I am feeling VASTLY better. I get comments daily about how much better I'm looking. Which is great, but really secondary to me. I was more consumed with the constant itching, sloughing, and obsessing with the condition. My sloughing stopped after about 10 days, the itching is still with me, but reduced maybe 75-80%, and my skin is soft and looks normal everywhere except my hands. All I can say is that it's working for me.

Ralph, I have never been interested in food. To me, eating is like putting gasoline in a car. Food is fuel and that's all. I could eat the same thing every day, and frequently do. I also eat very plainly. I often had trouble living with people because they spent so much time planning and preparing meals. I was amazed and annoyed by their need to make eating an elaborate ritual. I've had a lack of interest in taste/smell since infancy. I don't think my brain developed in those areas, because as your Dr. said, my brain was too busy processing the itch. I can barely taste/smell most food. Also, like Ann, I get anaphylactic shock from nuts and seeds so perhaps a lack of hunger is partly a self-protection mechanism. I rarely feel hungry. I eat when I think "It's been awhile since I've eaten, I should probably eat something". Only when I start eating and feel enthused about it do I realize, "Oh, I was hungry"... 

Brenda, I've had eyelid problems for the last several years with miserable results. When I finally got a correct diagnosis--blepharitis--I also received a strict regimen to follow:

When itchy, use Acular (nonsteroid) drops and cold compresses.

When dry, gitty and teary feeling, use hot compress and lid scrubs with Ocuclenz morning and evening--religiously.

During the day, when treater volume of tears are needed, use Bion tears and/or compare with Ocucoat.

At night before retiring to bed, use Celluvics drops (viscious).

After all the years of doing the eczema routine, this is one more routine that I have trouble following. I am so sick of this daily-nightly ritual of taking care of skin problems. And so I pay with blurry vision and other eye miseries constantly. I'l like to order a new set of eyeballs. 

Hi, We are all mostly longtermers with eczema, but I have lately become interested in hypnotherapy as well. It's not very well supported as legitimate therapy in this area that an insurance company will pay for. I'm checking into access. They will approve hypnotherapy for cessation of smoking. I fail to see why skin disease is considered less important than smoking. 

A few people on this list have reported less than optimal results with hypnotherapy. They were looking for relief of itching. I'm past that point, and want it more for my "head" than any physical problem. 

Alicia, Thanks for your long and thoughtful response. My homeopathic allergist put me on the restrictive diet - I sure wouldn't have dreamed it up. I did stop eating candy, and stopped drinking coffee and alcohol because they were real itch provokers. But the rest she discovered through testing. I may be a guinea pig for the acquired allergy from not eating foods theory. Will let the list know if I break down and have some sourdough bread.

And I agree with you about eating the freshest, purest food possible. I am lucky to live where I can buy a great variety of fresh, organic vegetables year round. Plus all types of organic rices nonwheat pastas, and other grains. I also buy no-chemical fed chicken. It's expensive, but I'm sure it's better for my health, plus it all tastes better.

Golly gee, Wren--are you sure you are still alive? On that diet, it sounds like you are ingesting nothing but air.

I just read an article by a Dr. Thomas Brunoski, a physician in private practice in Westport CT who specializes in treatment of medical problems with nutritional and allergy therapy rather than medication.

He reports that studies done in the 1930s at Mayo Clinic suggested a link between sugar intake and asthma. A sugar-free diet helped control or even cure asthma in children. He advises against caffeine if one has asthma also. He administers oral immunotherapy (liquid allergy treatment administered under the tongue). Can't vouch for his success rates, but the latter certainly did nothing for me.

Brunoski says it is almost impossible for a person to identify offending foods on his/her own.

Everyone writes about itching; however, my daughter's main complaint is redness. Not just pink but bright red. The redder her hands become, the skin becomes thicker accentutating all lines and creases. All lotions make her hands redder.

Has your "no wheat, no gluten, no sugar, no fruit, no dairy, no caffeine, no fermented foods" diet led to your feeling better, either in your skin or in terms of general well-being? I tried a similar diet, but one that did allow fruit, for ten days and my skin didn't feel better at all. I'm curious as to whether it has been helpful to you over a longer period of time.

Thanks, Shelley. That gives me some very helpful insight into my son's food habits, which seem to be similar to yours. In his case, it seems to be a healthy pattern: he is pleasantly lean, while the rest of us in the family tend to be on the heavy side.

We have an eight year old daughter who has had eczema since she was a baby. She get it all over her body. We have not been able to identify any food allergies, but she is allergic to house mites.

Although we have tried various alternative medicines, we find the only thing that has any real effect are steroid creams + emollients + moisturizers. For the last few months we have been wet wrapping which has had a very beneficial effect.

My Chinese Herb MD has me soaking my hands in a special powder dissolved in warm water to soften and heal my hands. The powder comes from something that is soaked out an herb, then dried. It is acidic and in soaking my hands for 40 minutes a day, is supposed to positively change the pH of my hands. My hands and skin were redder than they used to be when my eczema was bad, but I wouldn't call it a bright red. Now that I'm using the Chinese Herbal Tea, the ointments, and this soak, my skin color is getting back to normal. Don't know if this helps, but thought you'd like the info.

I was about 10 when I had chickenpox and the resulting eczema. The doctor did not seem too surprised at the time as both sides of my family have histories of asthma and eczema, and he had just treated my brother for a severe reaction to some medicines he'd been prescribed for pneumonia. (popular family myth has it that my great grandfather, who was immigrating from Sweden entered via Canada to avoid being rejected by the US immigration officials because of his eczema. Don't know how that true that is but it makes a great story!). At the time I was out of school for a month, and was given plenty of oral steroids. My mother had to put the pills into jelly beans to avoid my spitting them out because of the vile taste.

It eventually became manageable, and almost disappeared when I went to university. I may have grown out of it, but I also think despite the extremes, my skin prefered the drier climate to the moister climate where I had grown up.

It stayed relatively managaeable until about a two years ago. My sense was my skin had finally rebelling against the English climate (I miss the sun incredibly). Evening primrose oil worked for awhile, with some steriod creams prescribed by the doctor here (who by the way has eczema himself and seems to accept it as an inevitable condition of living here). It got very much worse last autumn, so on the recommendation I went to a Chinese herbalist here. After a five weeks course of tea, it has cleared up, and I have to say I notice I have much more energy than I have had for awhile (that may be the result thought, of not feeling so low about having inflamed skin and being itchy all the time).

My Ch Dr hasn't mentioned any tests. Saw her today, and from the sounds of it I won't be taking the tea for a long period of time. Maybe a month more, perhaps less. That would make it a total of 10 weeks, maybe 3 months. Not that one can't be poisoned in a short period of time, but with 30 years of experience, she seems to know exactly what she's doing, which is making people well. Yahoo.

And as I said, her tea has 16 ingredients, so is apparently a somewhat different formulation than the stuff you are using.

I was at my homeopathic allergist yesterday (I still see her even though the CHT is doing wonders), and she let me know that there's a new allopathic (Western medicine) drug for eczema and night itching. It's called Zyrtec.

She asked if I wanted to try it, and I said, No", because of the good results that I'm having with the CHT. But I thought the rest of you might be interested and could ask your doctors about it.

That is fantastic news, Wren. So glad you are getting genuine relief. It even makes me feel relieved to read your words. I can so relate to the anxiety about sloughing and the distraction from itching all the time. What a boon to do something else with your mind and energy! Good luck. 

Actually, I eat tons, and eat quite a variety of foods. Instead of concentrating on what I CAN'T eat, I look at everything I can. Fritos, for example, are really fun to eat. I love corn torillas fried up, then stuffed with beans, rice, veggies, or anything I can think of. Chicken and potatoes - hey you got mashed, french fries, baked, home fried. For breakfast I often eat sweet potatos (there are 3 organic varieties I can get), eggs, homemade nonwheat bread, or leftovers. They make lots of different nonwheat pastas now. How about squash, corn, broccoli, bok choy, a million kinds of beans, organic potato chips, corn nuts, all kinds of soups. Believe me, I'm a real piggy. I amaze my friends. How about Denver omelets with bacon and home fries? Yum Yum. I can eat butter, and thank goodness, have no cholesterol problems, though generally I cook with olive oil.

Thanks for the Brunkowski info. I had asthma in college, but not since I went to live in one of the moldiest places in the US. Plus, our dorms had forced air heat, which forced decades old dust out along with the warmth. I was also stressed out competing with the academic overachievers, plus had the usual social stresses. I did get allergy shots and the asthma went away.

I didn't notice major improvement to my skin while on this diet, though I was slowly getting better. Could have been the diet in combination with the homeopathic treatments.

However my general health is excellent. Just had a check up with my GP, and I was OKAY. My energy is good all the time, except when I don't get enough sleep. I don't have the mood and energy swings that I had when I drank 3 cups of coffee a day and ate sugar. I feel healthy, and rarely get sick.

My digestive system is apparently working better, as I have 1-3 bowel movements a day, much more often than the 1 every day or 2 that I used to have. According to Dr. John McDougal, the health, no meat, no dairy advocate I hear on the radio, increased easy bowel movements are easier on the body and normal in parts of the world where people eat primarily vegies, fruits, and grains. I don't usually bring this all up in conversation, but you asked, and I think it's important that people be aware of good health in all body functions. I think that they're all linked.

So I'd recommend anyone eat more grains, beans, veggies, and fruit.

My son Saul had eczema from just a few weeks after birth until he was about two years old.

My dermatologist was able to get rid of Saul's problem by treating him with a combination of strong steriod ointment, antibiotics by mouth, and tar soaks in the bathtub. We continued this program for about two weeks per instructions, and Saul's eczema cleared up. It has never come back to any significant extent, although he occasionally has a bit of dry skin.

The antibiotic seems to be the crucial ingredient. Has that ever been tried for your daughter?

Our daughter who is now six years old has had eczema since she was six months old. She is doing much better now that she is getting older and we are following a routine of two showers a week, lowila soap, and aveeno cream (in a jar not lotion in a bottle) every day twice a day. We do have to use steroid cream occasionally if she has a bad patch. We have only used antibiotics when she has scratched a spot to the point of infection. How long was your son on antiobiotics?

Brenda asked how best to deal with eczematic eyelids. Many will know that topical steroids can have a thining effect on the skin and that some steroids are stronger than others. Only a doctor can properly advise which steroid is for which part of the skin but you may be interested in an extract from an article in Exchange (a few years back) by Dr Andrew Wright consultant dermatologist at Bradford (UK) Infirmary in which he divides topical steroids into five groups from strong to weak. I understand the weak ones are sometimes recommended for application to the face. His `weak' list includes the following:

Hydrocortisone 0.5% Cobadex Efcortelan Hydrocortisyl Neomedrone Mildison Timodene Terra-Cortril Hydrocal Dioderm Sential

Interestingly, I have been prescribed Alphaderm for my face, which is from the next group of stronger drugs, but I have received no guidance on application to eyelids.

Many thanks for your response regarding hypnotherapy. My interest was stimulated by a report on some research carried out at the Barnsley (UK) District General Hospital. (The report was published in the British Journal of Dermatology: 1995, Vol 132 pp778-83).

Yes, we have used anti-biotics with our daughter and they did not have any partcular effect. To be frank, my head swims when I try to remember details of all the different treatments we have tried, when and for how long. This is one of the problems of being the parents of someone with eczema and, I suppose, having eczema. Because the condition is in a constant state of flux we are constantly searching for the right balance of treatment. If what we try isn't working to well we feel guilty for our failure.

We are lucky that what we are doing now seems to work (or is it just a phase, or is she growing out of it). 

Do you recall what specific medicine it was, the dosage, and for how long she took it?

I ask about the antibiotic because a drug of that class was so helpful for my son. Also they seem to help my own skin considerably. I'm taking Biaxin right now. It's a relative of Erythromycin, according to my doctor.

Michael, Thanks for your comment. I am aware of the British study. Specifically refering to your experience, I have a couple of thoughts:

1) It may take a while until you can see clear results, but

2) Only about 15% of the adult population is very suceptible to hypnosis, that is capable of a deep trance. I am biased in that I believe that the highly hypnotizable are going to respond. Many other people in the field think that the depth of the trance is irrelevant for obtaining results. In a preliminary study with patients with psoriasis, only those highly hypnotizable subjects cleared their skin.

Everybody, This may be a dumb question or maybe I am just not informed on the Chinese Herbal Tea. If you can't drink the tea forever, and if it has potential liver damage as a side effect, what is the advantage of CHT over prednisone??? I seem to be allergic to every plant on the planet; so I stay away from anything "herbal" myself. But I'm just curious and, I must admit worried, that some forms of this tea are loaded with steroids.

Diane, I, too, am often bright red. Sometimes after a major scratch session, my skin is so red that I can't tell what's bleeding and what isn't! You mentioned "lotions". I was told that many lotions are actually drying. (particularly the ones that feel cool; the cool feeling comes from water leaving the skin!) Creams and ointments are usually a better bet, but watch out for additives in the creams. I find that Eucerin creme (maybe because it is white) makes my skin look less red for a while anyhow. Vaseline seems to highlight the redness; I guess because it's shiny. Face redness is always a problem for me, even when my face isn't itching. I think most people think I'm having hot flashes!

Kristen, Awhile ago you said you had trouble finding a moisturizer that didn't contain irritants. I just remembered that my allergist had me trying food oils (olive oil, Crisco etc.) once because she said they were a lot purer that other lubes. Unfortunately, my skin is so very dry, only something really sticky like vaseline is helpful. Even the Crisco didn't work. I never tried margarine or butter.

My experience is that you take the CHT for a very limited period only (in my own case it was for about 20-25 days). I have only needed to take it again (for a shorter period) about every other year. I found that the effects of prednisone were much more short-lived. Can't comment on the steroid content - that's one disadvantage of taking a treatment prescribed by a Chinese when you are an English speaker. Describing the symptoms is about as far as it can go.

Sorry I can't remember any details about the antibiotic. I sometimes can't remember what I'm supposed to be slapping on at the moment, let alone what I was doing a few months ago!

I admit, I don't know much about the CHT. I'll ask my CHT MD about possible liver damage. I asked her twice whether or not there were steriods in her ointment, and she said absolutely not. Don't know about the tea containing steriods, but I doubt it. Will ask.

What I like about Chinese medicine is that it treats the cause, not just the symptoms, which is Western medicine's approach. I fully expect this condition to subside and go away from drinking the tea. Maybe I'm optomistic, but as someone who didn't have bad eczema, then acquired it by way of a systemic breakdown, feel that I can once again have good health and normal skin. I just felt that I had to find the right path, if you will, to the good health. Will keep you posted.

Am a little itchier today, but that's always the case during my period.

I have a strange little book here called: twelve years with the Sufi Herb Doctors. Its author, one Najib Siddiqi, studied Sufi herbal medicine in Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion of 1980. The book has a single paragraph about eczema:

All kinds of Sores, Eczema and other skin complaints are treated with lemon rinds which have been bruised and applied locally. I have seen conditions clear which according to their sufferers have been raging for several years, in one case over a quarter of a century.

That's it. I wonder if anyone out there has ever tried anything of this sort. A Pakistani friend whom I questioned about this matter had never heard of this remedy being applied in his community. He also told me that there are to his knowledge several varieties of lemon in Afghanistan so perhaps it's not too wise to go experimenting with your local variety. Does anyone know anything else about Najib Siddiqi. I contacted the publisher in London and they told me that he lives in the far East and they have no regular contact with him.

Carrie, My son was on antibiotics only for a short time - two weeks, I believe. I am speaking of oral antibiotics such as Erythromycin. There is a theory that eczema has something to do with bacteria, even when the eczema does not appear to be infected. 

Ann, Since my latest facial flare, I'm now on a burst of Prednisone, but keeping the redness and strange infection down are a daily battle. I've stopped using A&D ointment--think tar may be a problem--and am sticking only with Vit E oil and Crisco. I didn't like Crisco before because it didn't seem to lubricate anything, but I think it is more pure and more reliable. I'm really scared of any commercial lotions now. At least the Crisco battens down the dryness, but I'm not sure why I still am having reddened face. It kinda "radiates" if you know the sensation. I do have some white grease from my pharmacy that I think is safer than Vaseline. I've tested allergic to rubber, so am leery of tar products. I always preferred Vaseline in the past, but now am averse to its sticky heavy greasy attributes. Strange how one's preferences for meds change, but of course I know my skin has been through a lot of changes, too. Thanks for sharing your experiences with this stuff. 

Hi Michael, It was most interesting to me to read your list of "weak" steroids. I forwarded it to my derm dr. She put me on a weak facial steroid about ten years ago and I did well for a number of years. In the last few years I have been having strange facial bumpy edematous erythematous itchy sites that seemed to spread, and were resistant to everything I tried. Using OTC drying agents not only made it worse, but gave me a couple of severe facial flare ups with worse all-over edema. I think I am my own worst enemy in this facial battle! 

When I was younger, I literally could not afford to purchase meds prescribed by my doctor. So I went without. Health insurance has become hugely important to me as I age, since my cortisone overuse (esp facially) has become an acute problem. My derm doctor is at a loss as well, and I've been too careless with putting meds on my face without testing carefully in one little spot. My downfall was the 30-year, regular, daily, constant use in one place in particular--my face. I never used it as consistently anywhere else, and really have no acute eczema problems anywhere else now. Rotating of cortisone meds and strict follow up with a physician is highly critical, esp when you are dealing with a small child. I didn't start using cortisone until I was age 18. Good luck. 

Francisko, Many thanks for your note on hypnotherapy. I was encouraged by your knowledge of the British study and was interested to hear your thoughts about the therapeutic potential for those capable/incapable of deep trance. I am in the latter group but have been told this does not matter. In my case the treatment for atopic eczema coupled with 'anxiety scratching', often involving healthy skin, includes an anti-depressant drug although I was unaware I was depressed. However, there has been no improvement in nine months of treatment. I would be interested to hear of any successes with atopic patients.

Michael, I just want to say that in my experience "healthy skin" can certainly itch. In fact, in my opinion that is the start of the cycle for all (well, at least for my own) eczema. Unbroken skin begins itching "underneath" and subsequently becomes damaged by scratching and perhaps by something in the eczematous process "breaking through".

But I definitely perceive the problem as starting below the surface. Personally, I don't think the itching is primarily psychological in origin. 

I just read the following in a 1995 book called Roots of the Self, by Robert Ornstein. "A study in Glasgow in 1982 found that left-handers were eleven and a half times more likely to have hay fever, asthma, and eczema, and an allergy clinic in London found that their patients were 70% more likely to be left-handed. It is fairly well-established that many problems of left-handers are connected with birth difficulties... Most at risk seems to be the immune system, which may be damaged by too much testosterone in the womb. Testosterone can also attack the thymus gland. People with a damaged thymus are far more likely to suffer from allergies like hay fever and asthma." I'm a right-hander but I found this interesting. Any left-handers out there? 

>>Personally, I don't think the itching is primarily psychological in origin.<<

No, but the eczema does seem to have a psychological effect. I find that when my eczema becomes active, rather than lurking about on my hands which it does most of the time, I feel rather shaky and anxious, as if I'm nervous. There is never any concrete reason for these feelings. This can't be the cause of the eczema as otherwise the CHT would be unlikely to have the curative effect it does as it seems to be based on your medical condition (as far as I can judge - my herbalist has no English and we work through an interpreter whose own English is not 100%).

Perhaps this is not strictly a psychological effect, but the result of an agent working on one's nervous system.

Having said that, I do tend to find that when my life seems to be getting out of control, the eczema tends to surface. 

Diane: The bright redness you describe sounds like infection or inflammation. I've heard of taking aspirin for inflammation. Also, soak in cold water, or put ice packs. If it's infected, you may need oral antibiotics or just use topical antibacterial soap or liquid. 

Wayne, Which way does your point scale go? Is 100 or 0 clear skin? I'd have a hard time rating myself because one area is often a lot worse than others and sometimes a mild area is itching me crazy while a more severe area is benign at the moment! "Silent eczema" is what I call skin that doesn't feel particularly uncomfortable. "White eczema" is dry flakey skin that isn't inflamed.

Everybody, We have talked about the enormous amount of time that are skins require. One more complaint is the time it takes to keep nails short and smooth. I have strong and fast-growing nails ( probably from all that scratching). If I let them get any length at all, my skin goes downhill fast ( I do a lot of scratching while I am asleep; I undo any kind of glove or restraint without waking). If I try to get by with just clipping the nails, the sharp edges do their own damage. So obligatory manicures are one more thing to do! 

Brenda, I couldn't agree with you more. We could debate for years whether eczema is psychologically based, and never agree. In retrospect, I find myself more inclined to accept that psychology plays a huge part in eczema, one way or another. I would never have acceded to that theory even ten years ago, however. But I do remember feeling so terribly antsy when I was younger, and nothing helped except to "bother" my skin because I just didn't know what else to do with myself. I wish now I had tuned in to what was really going on in my life psychologically at that time. 

The antsy anxieties would evolve regardless of any particular eczema status, but which came first, the chicken or the egg? That's why I now believe individual psychology is linked intrinsically with any one person's eczema and cannot be separated from it. I feel exceptionally fortunate for now because I haven't had acute eczema exacerbations (except when I went through an intense period of anger recently). I attribute this new quietude to a leveling off of my internal and external life to a plateau--even boredom is preferable to the eczema digs. I believe few of us ever sit down with ourselves and examine our inner lives. We are so busy chasing our tail and the clock it seems. 

I use the scale as a kind of "objective" tool to measure my skin condition. Every day I rate myself and enter the rating in my journal. The scale goes from 1 (the worst I have ever been) to 100 (the best it has been for me). So, you see, I'm not comparing my skin to someone else's. 

I do the best I can and give myself a overall score...it's kind of like olympic ice skating (!) I think it would be interesting for those of you with people living with you to have them score you as well, it may be more objective then. (Then, they may also move out).

Ann, you made an excellent point about the possibility of steroids in the CHT. In the Dermatology Focus report Dr Sheehan seems to say that they checked the CHT concoction out for steroids and for their sample, they did not find any. My hospital checks me monthly with full blood and urine labs.

The speed your nails grow is also an indication of how skin is dealing with AD. I find that they grow faster (like Ann says) in the beginning, but if I have a full scale flare up my scratching will exceed the speed of nail growth and the nails become concave!

I know I'm not in much of a position to pronounce on what people with eczema should or should not do as mine is obviously not as bad as many on the list.

However, one thing I have noticed is that when I was worrying furiously about and concentrating on my eczema it was a lot worse. When I found that control was possible (through CHT in my case) if I chose (and I only choose on rare occasions because of the difficulties involved), I was able to change my attitude and basically tell the eczema to "get lost". It doesn't, of course, but it is certainly not as bad as when I was constantly peering at my skin to see what was going to break out next.

I do jut wonder if this sort of concentration on one's condition isn't counterproductive. 

My own experience is that the eczema arose at a time when a major stress had been removed from my life, but on reflection this could have caused stresses of another type, and at the time I didn't know in which direction my life was going to be heading. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the concept of *control* seems to be very important. There could be a very real danger of allowing the eczema to take control of you. I still have a totally unsubstantiated conviction that the condition is primarily physical in origin, but the way in which we cope with it must, I feel, eventually affect the outcome. 

Our son was prescribed Trimethoprim by a Consultant Dermatologist and she advised that he should remain on it continuously for periods of 3 months and more. The one time his General Practitioner agreed to this, his skin did seem to improve, (though as with everything to do with eczema and slow cures, this could be due to coincidence or something else). Unfortunately, since then, his GP has refused to prescribe anything other than 10 day courses which achieves nothing. I would be very grateful to hear of any research references.

Shelley, I have hay fever (or I should say "seasonal allergic rhinitis") and eczema. And I am left handed.

My wife is also left handed, but our two children are both right-handed. The children both have dry skin or mild eczema which can usually be controlled with emollients.

I am a converted right hander-I was born left handed and my parents changed me to right handed. I guess in a survey I would be categorized as 50/50.

My doctor has never mentioned Trimethoprim. He uses antibiotics like Erythromycin or Penicillin. Recently he has given me Biaxin, a relatively new drug as I understand it, related to Erythromycin. It has not been necessary to be on it for a long time; 10 days has been more than adequate. He also prescribes tar baths and topical steriods to be used at the same time.

As I mentioned, this combination actually "cured" my son. Of course, the eczema could come back later, but it's been about five years now and there have been only minor irritations since then. The latter we treat with topical steroids and they disappear.

I used Home Health Products brand of cold pressed, cold processed castor oil as my lubricant for about 2 years. It soothed my skin while moisturizing. It is thick, but worked for me. I didn't find a commercial cream that I could use, though I didn't try Aquaphor.

I'd like to start a round of discussion about children with excema. And invite all to reply whether or not if affects you or one of your children if appropriate.

My son, who is 2 years old, had two spots of it on the backs of his knees from 1 month of age until about the age 1. Then it began to show up in place like his ear lobes, and behind his elbows. At age 1 1/2 it began to spread on his legs and arms and face. At the peak his arms legs and face were completely covered with oozing excema.

We treated him with cortisone ointment, and taking him off of eggs and dairy products. Our m.d. said excema is basically an allergic reaction akin to hay fever only manifested in the skin instead of the respitory system. The m.d. also did skin tests for environmental allergens and found that he reacted strongly to molds, mites, some grasses and trees. He also suggested we try Benadryl which is an antihistamine, and try using Dreft detergent as it is the only one that is almost hypoallergenic. We live where things are very damp and had a LOT of molds on our walls. We took the shotgun approach and did everything at once. We cleaned the molds, changed detergents, and modified his diet as I mentioned above. We found his excema then was cycling from almost well to just bad at times behind his knees. And we couldn't trace the improvements to anything really. We thought the benadryl did it but then it had no effect later, etc.

Now he is worse than ever. And it has spread to his tummy and backside which it hadn't done before. Also under his neck is swollen and oozing and looks like he is 90 years old. Also under his eyes it has swollen and reddened a lot. He looks pretty pathetic.

During the day he doesn't seem to bothered, but always at night between 12-4 he wakes up crying and scratching.

Specific questions I have are:

1) What are the negatives about using cortisone? It seems to be the only thing that helps but we worry about it's use, especially after Kristen's note over the weekend.

2) What are everyone's opinion about diet playing a role?

3) What are everyone's opinion about enivironmental factors (mites, molds, etc.)

4) Do a large number of kids grow out of this?

5) Any thoughts on prenatal care and its influence? We are expecting another baby and my wife feels strongly that we could help the baby to come by working on her diet now and the babies diet from the get go. I am up for that but she has some pretty labor intensive ideas that I don't want to waste our time on if it isn't worth it.

Thanks for any input, things are really difficult now.

Brenda, I have the same experience. When my eczema is bad I am tense and feel nervous, even when there aren't obvious stressors in my life. This is almost the worst symptom for me, and is 80-90% alleviated with the CHT. I definitely feel as if the eczema is overtaking my whole system, with the itchy, sometimes oozy skin just one aspect.

My sister does have hay fever, but has never had eczema. My brother has no hay fever or skin allergies, but is very allergic to bee stings. I inherited both skin and respiratory allergies, though the latter haven't surfaced in quite a few years (knock on wood). My family doesn't bear out that author's left-handed theory. I'll ask my sis if she remembers a particularly traumatic birth. I do know I was not breast fed, don't know about my siblings. I give much more credence the breast-fed, nonbreast-fed theory of eczema causation than handedness.

Brenda, I agree with your view that eczema is physical, or biochemical in origin. The effects can cause profound psychological upheaval as we've discussed, but I do believe for myself that my body is out of balance, and when in balance, I won't have this disease. That applies the the nervousness symptom as well. I believe that it is a physical reaction to some bodily chemical reaction, and does not stem from a psychological problem.

Whoops, forgot to say that sis is left handed, and my brother and I are both right handed. Mom, who has eczema only is right handed, and Dad, who has hay fever only, is right handed. Sounds like a puzzle in the Sunday paper.

The idea of a "eczema" personality worries me. It's a bit like blaming the victim.

Our daughter has eczema since she was a baby (she's now 8), There's no doubt at all that stress effects the eczema and vice versa, but I suspect the relationship is quite complex.

For example, if she's worried or upset she'll scratch (can this be a kind of learnt/comfort behaviour?), her eczema will deteriorate, she'll have sleep patterns disturbed, she'll get run down or ill, her tiredness will mean she copes less well with stress so she'll scratch more. And so it goes on.

Also children (and adults) have to put up with ignorance about eczema. The fact that she has to put up with teasing about her skin and prejudice about it being catching surely must effect her confidence and self esteem.

(By the way, I'm shocked that TV comics will joke about eczema - would that be OK for other debilitating conditions).

It is an interesting and important debate. I'm interested in hearing more from adults about how they dealt with teasing and ignorance as children. How can parents help their children?

Oh, and about the left-handed debate. Esme (our daughter) is right-handed, loves maths and numbers and (like most 8 year olds) is very creative

Dear Greg, I'll give you our thoughts on your questions.

1. We've been using steriods creams on Esme since she was a baby (now she's 8) We've tried other treatments (including homeopathy, CHT, porridge in the bath, dairy free diets) and nothing works but steriod creams. Our doctors have always been very reassuring about steriods and since nothing else works we choose to trust them on this point. In the last few months we have been using "wet wraps" which I think is quite new here in the UK and they make a massive difference. Are wet wraps a treatment that you've been offered? If not let me know andI'll describe it.

2. Diet: Didn't work for us but probably worth trying.

3. Environmntal factors: I haven't heard of molds. Feather beds and pets make Esme worse.

4. Most kids do grow out of it. I sincerely hope your boy does. Only those of us directly effected know how devastating it can be for the individual and their families. At times I felt that Esme's eczema so dictated our lives that we weren't a "proper" family somehow. I used to stare at the pattern of eczema on her body feeling sure that it held some sort of clue and if I could work out what it was I'd know how to cure it. 

5. No thoughts on pre-natal care. Esme was breast fed exclusively till about 5 months then with other things till she was over a year.

Greg, I feel really sad reading this about your son. I hope he can get some help.

Notice that everything your pediatrician has suggested has accomplished exactly nothing. That is what happened with our pediatrician, too; he just kept recommending ineffectual things. I don't think most pediatricians are well trained in this area.

We finally took my son to a dermatologist and he was cured in about two weeks! I know I'm repeating myself, since I've described this on the list just recently. My apologies to anyone who's getting bored with this story.

The dermatologist put Saul on tar baths, topical steroids (Diprolene), and antibiotics by mouth.

This same combination has worked wonders for my own eczema, and it did for Saul's, too. He has not had a significant recurrence since that treatment. He was two when he was treated, and is now seven.

Although I'm enthusiastic about this program of treatment, I guess it's possible that the method doesn't work for everyone with eczema, and that Saul and I have (not surprisingly) the same kind of eczema, so it has worked for both of us.

My eczema has not gone away, but it's much better for many weeks after the treatment I've described. The antibiotic seems to be the